fyi i am also bestredlighttherapy on reddit if you see followup from that handle

I Am looking for red light mainly for sleep (850nm), but it could also help me with inflammation (660nm).

660, 810 and 1070 are approximately the most absorbable. Since LEDs have a range of wavelengths and since what you absorb changes with oxidation and reduction activity in the mitochondria, being too exact is not a great use of your time. Stay in the zone and it should be fine.

I wanted first light to reach the brain, but for 810nm there is not enough research for depression/anxiety anyways - so I gave up on that.

This is what my book is about. What works on the brain for dementia, tbi and general cognition. The 810 and 1070 are paramount in literature but 633-660 nm is useful too, despite its lower penetration values. Everything that works on the body works on the brain.

The right wavelength and pulse at the right location output with the right energy absolutely is therapeutic and there is plenty of literature to back it up. I put a bunch of articles on bestredlighttherapy.com, look under vielight the product and brain for articles. Also go to emfchannel.com, light dose database, brain. That's not all of them. The major evidence on mice proving biological effect is removing amyloid plaque, increasing memory, improving mood. I don't study pain relief to the degree I look at other issues but I can only assume that the pain relief parameters are going to be similar to what's already out there.

Besides 830nm should dip to 810nm (not sure if this wasn't only for gembared devices)! I have chronic pain, it is difficult to read even 1 article for me - I have brutal headaches...

I'm really sorry to hear of your headaches. There are a number of things I know of that might help, I am interested in what you've tried and if you know what types of headaches they are. I study brain injury and dementia. Headaches are 100% an issue in TBI and they do get better with therapy. Andrew doesn't sell 810 nm that I know of. I prefer devices built for the head in order to get the most contact of light bulb to skin with the least unwanted EMF. I don't use panels for the head.

Is it even possible to find out real intensity of these lights? Because they don't provide any information! And their claims are highly inflated!

Non healthcare vendors sell grow lights converted to red light therapy specs. They use solar meters to measure irradiance. Whatever they say, assume 33-50%. The head is a special case because hair absorbs light. We pretty much believe that 3% of the light makes it to the brain, depending on variables of course. Brain-oriented vendors who do not publish their specs are not expecting you to ask, they want customers who don't know how to ask these questions. Of the few people in the brain space, I know of none I can't recommend for technical reasons. If their product is not on my site, either I don't know them yet or I dislike them for non-technical reasons. The upshot of that for you is, if they sell a device specifically for brain work in the US (are you in the US?), I probably trust them on a technical level and therefore specs don't matter because I trust them to have the right instructions for you based on their specs.

https://gembared.com/blogs/musings/what-is-the-real-intensity-of-my-led-panel-the-dark-deception-of-red-light-therapy It is funny joovv writes about false intensity claims and then: their devices have >100 mw/cm^2... https://joovv.com/blogs/joovv-blog/power-red-light-therapy-false-claims

I have nothing nice to say about the company mentioned above for the reasons we have all discussed. Plus they're arrogant dicks. Moving on.

Any intensities above 100 mw/cm² are marketing tricks, IEC declares max safe level 57 mw/cm² for NIR for less than 1000 seconds! https://gembared.com/blogs/musings/red-and-near-infrared-light-and-eye-safety-seeing-is-believing https://www.renesas.com/us/en/document/apn/an1737-eye-safety-proximity-sensing-using-infrared-light-emitting-diodes Ctrl+f: Risk Group 1 (Low Risk)

I thought the code was for eye safety, there's nothing wrong with a device that's 100 mW/cm² in principle but unless it's too bright for the eyes. Here's the thing about 100 mW/cm^2, it's a marketing number that equates to 6 joules per minute, which is incredibly fast treatment time. Use that on a panel at 6-12 inches, fine. Put it on your head and you might get too hot. Burn? I don't know, my manufacturer for the device I'll be selling does not want to do 100 mW/cm² because they think it's too hot for a head device.

Here's an important fact that will help you with power densities: If you can trust the irradiance given (which I agree is not always the case), then you are always trading power for time. The weaker the device, the longer the session. The stronger the device, the shorter the session. But you're not trading effectiveness for power. Weak and strong are therapeutic as long as the weak ones are minimally strong. There is a level that's too low, some garbage vanity products are too low, very few are christmas lights that can't do a thing. But if you don't spend the adequate time with a weak product? You're wasting time and money because it won't work without adequate exposure.

I was thinking about mito, but e.g. mito 300, has even lower intensity than biomax 300 based on their power input and rated power of LEDs. https://gembared.com/blogs/musings/how-many-watts-do-you-you-need-for-red-light-therapy If I Am going to spend that much money (for any of these devices) I would like to know, if there are even any merits! Because intensities deeper it goes can be quite low! https://gembared.com/blogs/musings/how-deep-does-red-and-near-infrared-wavelengths-penetrate-into-the-body-marketing-vs-science?_pos=2&_sid=69ac24738&_ss=r

I can't read Andrew's blog right now, I can re-visit these questions when I get a chance, for the rest of what you said above, the mito and biomax are definitely powerful enough, I consistently see good results with both, and I would not have a problem with you buying either one. I don't know what you mean by "Because intensities deeper it goes can be quite low!" I believe both companies sell therapeutic products.

USE BESTREDLIGHT at MITO for a discount.

So I don't know what to get, I don't want platinumlights for host of reasons!

Noted. Agreed.

Gembared seems to be on other side of the extreme, as they have like 6-7 mw/cm^2!

I have a bias on this topic and therefore cannot help. I no longer do business with said propietor.

So mito light mb. or joovv. What about that redlightman? Yes. No. Yes.

Are there any other manufacturers?

I highly recommend talking with Scott Kennedy at LightpathLED. he sells my favorite gear, the multiple pulsing is future proofed, some of it is not proven in science but will be, some of it is not proven but there are schools of thought that know what works, and some of them are scientifically proven. The lights are high quality and Scott won't let you fail.

USE CODE EMFCHANNEL at lightpathled.com for a discount.

Or maybe I will be some bulb like this for now: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B091TN7QTR before we have better products on the market, or something changes with disclosed information!

That's equivalent to the Woleczek, look at bulbs on bestredlighttherapy.com, it's the same thing. I have a bunch of these that were returned and tested that I am selling for small fee. You need lamps for them. I also have lamps unfortunately they are slightly too weak to hold up. You could rig them to work with some bread twists and buy yourself a lot of irradiance very cheap if you want to buy in bulk from me. I will post pics to show you what I'm referring to. My friend Bill has a spectrophotometer, he tested the brand and says they are outputting according to spec.

Thanks for help!

You're welcome.

I'd rather see you get a brain device that might work for the body than a body device that you try to make work for the brain.

I have a test unit on my product that I would lend you but it's not pulsing right so it's a poor test of whether this will work for you. When I get the next prototype I will need testers if you're interested, I will need people who will follow instructions, log their use, and keep a diary of their experiences.

Any other questions?